Date   : Tue, 07 Aug 2001 02:41:52 +0000
From   : "W.Scholten" <wouter.scholten@...>
Subject: Mailing list: discussion or info list?

Hi All,

There's something I miss to a certain extent on this list, namely real
discussions. Maybe just because the scope is too broad or there are too
few people working on/interested in the same things, but for example the
'complaint' by someone about not caring about jpeg/tiff etc. and
thinking such mails are a waste of time seem to indicate that some
people think this list is sort of a message board and help list only.
Perhaps that's also why there were no posts discussing uef before, and
my tape format later on (or my suggestion to use the 6502em tape format
in 1997 or so. I'd still be interested in a discussion about the 6502em
format.).

The charter says:
    This list is for discussion of all aspects of the BBC Microcomputer
    and related machines such as the Acorn Electron and BBC Master
    Series.

    This list has recently been combined with the BBC Micro Emulators
    mailing list.

Perhaps it's a good idea to make it more explicit, for example something
like this:
    This list is for discussion of all aspects of the BBC Microcomputer
    and related machines such as the Acorn Electron and BBC Master
    Series.

    This includes using & developing emulators, and communication with
other
    computers (like serial transfer software, disk reading software).

    Also enquiries on using/fixing these computers, their emulators and
related
    software are welcome.


Finally, should 'for sale' type messages be allowed? A separate list is
probably better for this.

Wouter


===============================================================================
PS. reply to 'the swearing guy's post':

(Sorry again for this reply, read this before entering this guy into my
block list. Last from me on this topic).

Gary McCallum wrote:

> I'm not obnoxious, just pissed off, I posted a message to try and restore
> some sanity to this group, only to have an idiot like you comment on an
> extremely trivial subject.  Evidently you don't practice what you preach
> otherwise you wouldn't have replied publicly.

Bull. See the other comments. At some point one needs to make certain
points. The reply was not a reply to you but a general state of what's
going on in ML's (currently this one too) and usenet. That I used your
mail as
part of this, well, if you try to insult me, I feel free to use that in
public.
If someone sends a threatening/insulting letter, then that can be used
without consent of the sender in real life too...

[ leave! ]

> It's a shame you're not leaving the list, with ranting and raving you may as
> well leave the list, I for one won't miss you.

It's a shame you're not leaving the list, continuing offtopic threads
and not having shared anything useful on this list before, I for one
wouldn't
miss you.


> >Aha. I just thought it was habit. Do you find it difficult to take
> >criticism or just had a bad day?

> I see your sense of humour was removed at some stage!

No, you don't see, and that's precisely the problem with you.

You just assume various things about others, do not read other's mails
properly and do not respond to arguments given.

And to perfectly spell it out for you, my comment was a wry joke.

>  I'm not bothered
> about criticism, people on high horses need bringing down.  I have to deal
> with people who are only just starting to use a computer every day, if they
> we're all subjected to the guidelines that you would like us to follow they
> would be too frightened to do anything!

No, thats bull again. I stated this before and clearly you have not read
my posts properly. I said that I don't mind top posting, nor do I
comment on it except if people insist on saying this is the proper thing
to do.
Also I only got annoyed because of 'non-replying to arguments' and then
only replying to and critisizing an insignificant point in my mail. This
I do mind.

My first mail on posting was an overview of why one should post comments
after quotes. Nothing more. In the second I made it clear that
intentionally being rude would result in me binning messsages. If
someone does it out of habit or prefers top posting for whatever reason,
that's not intentionally rude (that was probably not 100% clear, from
that post).

> > Damn. Wasted even more comments on a troll.

> Have you been talking to yourself again???

It almost appears so as you seem to skip most of the content of my
posts.

[errors]

> We're waiting.......

No, *you* are.

Point out *reasoning* errors please. This you haven't done.

(Using your private little ranting parade in public to show what happens
on the net these days? Well, see comment at the top and a few sentences
ahead. Continuing offtopic posts? Yes, guilty, and with this I did not
follow netiquette but, if you read my message clearly, I did not say I
*never* did anything that was not allowed by netiquette! I'm not
perfect, but I usually try to follow netiquette).


> Apologies to everyone else reading this, I sent my message to Wouter direct

Message? That was just silly name calling. If you'd responded in a
slightly more moderate manner we could have agreed amiably to drop all
this I'm sure. My reply to Andrew might not have been too friendly, but
I didn't even come close to being as rude as you were.

> as so not to bring down the tone of the mailing list any further.  It was

That's a laugh! You mean so as not to embarass yourself in public!

> Wouter who decided to drag it back into the Public Domain, proving that he
> does not practice what he preaches and prefers to spend all day standing on
> his soap box putting the world to rights.

Bull again. See comment at the top among others.

Funny what some people read into a few mails. You make quite a few
assumptions about what people are like, don't you?
Why don't you just start with the actual contents of mails and respond
to that? 

Better yet, forget that. Lets start fresh. Please post something useful
on this list. Goodbye!

W.