Date   : Thu, 05 Nov 2009 22:57:47 +0000
From   : afra@... (Phill Harvey-Smith)
Subject: Basic6809 1.00

John Kortink wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:22:56 +0000, Phill Harvey-Smith
> <afra@...> wrote:
>> Which prompts me to ask a possibly contentious question :
>>
>> Why do people still use assembler embedded in basic programs to build 
>> stuff with ? Especially considdering some of the limitations of such ?
> 
> I'd venture to guess because it's there and because
> it's free.

By the same philosophy that people use internet explorer.....

Though the other two assemblers I mentioned are also free (and cross 
platform), but granted not built in.

> There may be limitations of sorts. But also advantages
> (it's far easier to use OS functions, post-fix code,
> create powerful macros, and embed tables involving
> complicated calculations, for example).

Dunno what you mean by "easier to use os functions" ?

At least with BeebASM, you can use for/next etc to create tables.

>> I have tried understanding the code of some projects (the menu program 
>> for BeebMMC is one example that springs to mind), but the total lack of 
>> formatting, comments and meaningfull names (all due to lack of memory), 
>> make this task very difficult, in some ways I feel I would be better 
>> working from a dissasembily, at least that way I know it's just code :)
> 
> Such chaos is not necessarily due to memory shortage
> or the tools used. It's more likely programming style.

Humm except that you have to build it on a co-pro equipped machine (or 
emulator) due to memory restrictions......

>> Personally I prefer to use assemblers like BeebASM(6502) and 
>> Toolshed(6809) as they allow me to not limit the size of my source 
>> files, and so make my source more maintainable as I can lay it out in a 
>> way that is easier to understand, plus I can add verbose comments 
>> without fear of overflowing the memory limits of the assembler.
> 
> That, plus the speed and flexibility, is the point of my
> patches.
> 
> Case in point is assembling all of GoMMC's source code
> (roughly 200K), in around 3 seconds, towards files that
> are immediately accessible on the BBC via 65Link. Pure
> bliss.

Not having access to GoMMC's code I can't comment on that :)
but some of the admittedly smaller in codesize swr utils rom that I made 
  assembled in a similar time on my PC, and I was able to test under 
MESS/BeebEM, though I realise that this will be more difficult with 
custom hardware like GoMMC etc.

Cheers.

Phill.
-- 
Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric !

"You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge" -- Rush.