Date : Sun, 21 Nov 2010 02:35:30 +0100
From : rick@... (Rick Murray)
Subject: [OT] Who'da thought...
On 20/11/2010 23:40, J.G.Harston wrote:
> Here, have a one-way 'plane ticket, on me, conditional on destroying
> your passport.
Sometimes I think that wouldn't be a bad idea. But, well, I kinda need
some sort of official ID, so in the new year I'll be spending ?200 on a
passport I don't need...
> Why should white kids born in this country automatically get rights
> that brown people born overseas have to study and work hard for?
Because everybody needs to "belong" to a place. This is what citizenship
*is*.
Do we get rights in the country these "brown people" were born in? Even
if we pass some sort of semi-bogus test? If they themselves do not have
rights, I see that as a failing of their country, not ours.
And, indeed, the basic bottom line premise of the European Union, when
everybody isn't trying to f**k it up, is to allow people to have means
and rights in other countries. I don't mean the Daily Mail rant against
immigrants (that is fail on behalf of the UK). I mean the bit where you
are afforded the same degree of rights as a citizen after five years of
peaceful occupancy. It is how I work and live in France.
Oh, and their method for determining who has been here five years? Easy
- cough up your last five tax declarations. You'd be surprised how many
people this catches out.
Wouldn't it be a terrible irony if I was able to live and work here, but
would fail your UK test and have my citizenship taken away.
Out of interest - should the degree of melanin in a person's skin have
any bearing on their ability to become a citizen? I find it interesting
that you mention skin colour, while an Asian or American (or anybody
outside of the obligations of the EU) could have equal difficulties.
> encountering some hard-of-thinking idiot slagging off immigrants who
> can spell better than he can,
Given some of the stuff I've seen on websites, I sometimes think a
novice-level Russian student could write better than a lot of English.
Interestingly I was having a discussion about the Japanese school
system, which is pretty lackadaisical compared to the Koreans. But in
comparison to the schools I went to, it would be a total trauma. There
is a massive difference in outlook in other countries. There's a sweet
poster apparently for a college in Tokyo that says "learn English to
pick up cute gaijin!". While... why do we learn French at school?
Because it is part of the curriculum (well, it was in the late '80s). I
passed three years of French and learned...
...are you ready...?
1. Oo est le plag (read it phonetically, not correctly)
2. Bi?re, salop! (perhaps how NOT to call a waitress)
3. Encoul?-vous (yes, it's quite rude)
Awesome. I've needed to use absolutely NONE of that in my time here.
> or when canvassing somebody who says they're "saving their vote for
> next year" !
How about my mother's stock response:
"Don't vote, it only encourages them."
Of course, people like her are the reason why not so long ago the French
elections were a run off between a normal politician and the National Front.
If enough respectable decent people can't be bothered to get up off
their fat asses and tick a piece of paper, then the future of the
country will be decided by lunatics.
[though some might argue it already is...]
> It's like one of the Driving Test questions: how would you check
> the oil? Truthful answer: I'd say to the garage attendant,
ROTFL ;-)
<flamebait> That's a bit of a girl answer, that. </> We blokes are
supposed to know which end of a dipstick to poke in a cold tight space.
Yeah, go on, bring your own subtext. It's 2am and I'm watching
"Higurashi no Naku Koro ni" so it's no surprise my mind is a bit out there.
> I say my good chap, check that the oil is all ok, won't you.
... tell me you're making an example. You *do* know how to do
lights'n'levels don't you?
> How many Parliamentary Constituencies are there? 464, 564, 646, 664.
Frankly, who gives a...? Four, five, or six hundred. It doesn't make
much difference in the real world. How about learning how voting
*works*? [and for bonus points, explain the US electoral college system,
I know it has nothing to do with the UK, but in my simplistic little
mind I kinda feel the guy with the most X's is the winner, but
astonishingly the Americans managed to devise a different method...]
> I've just skimmed through 24 sample questions and most of my former
> constituents might be pushing it to get 4 or 5 correct.
So there you go. You're out of a job as all your constituents are no
longer citizens.
I guess, in addition, a country would be insane to take citizenship away
from its own civilians. As much as I might think Al Murray is a total
<insert expletive> in his guise as a pub landlord, it might be people
like him who can rouse up a little long-lost Dunkirk spirit if something
as unthinkable as a war should ever touch the UK. But if you have a lot
of non-citizens, they'd be likely to think "why-t-f do I care" or join
in with the enemy.
I guess I am an anomaly having never really felt like I belonged
anywhere or to any specific group. I recall Elma (God bless) once saying
that being alone during breaks must surely be soul destroying. No,
loneliness is a path of life that I choose. Call me anything you like
(and if it helps, I pretty much fit the official
will-become-a-rampaging-psychopath profile, not that tick-box profiles
are worth the paper they're written on if you ask me), anyway, call me
what you like but I rather like my life simple and uncomplicated.
HOWEVER, I have seen those near me (no, not family, at school etc)
feeling like their lives are being torn apart as they try desperately to
fit in. At work I see girls behave differently at work and away as they
alter their behaviour to fit in with the group.
Asides from anomalies such as myself, I think a group-based definition
is important to our species. Only a few of us seem to be willing to
self-identify. So many more prefer to identify based upon what their
peers do and think. You can see this in American "patriots". But look at
World Cup time and see all those English flags flying. There's a sense
of hope and pride in that (yes, even in a time that hasn't won in nearly
half a century). Would even this exist if a person's citizenship is no
longer granted to them? If a person born in the UK cannot automatically
think of themselves as British... where does that leave them?
How about disaffected, forgotten, p***ed-off, unwanted, and ripe
material for the manipulation by those of more fundamentally troublesome
leanings?
> I'd at least like people to vote for their local councillor with the
> intention of electing their local council, not vote thinking they're
> selecting the Prime Minister.
;-)
> And I wish people would realise that 99.5% of the population can't vote
> for Tony Blair/David Cameroon/Whoever.
I wish we *could* vote for the guy leading the country. And I wish a
change of leadership (Blair->Brown) would trigger an automatic general
election. We can't have mid-term votes as PMships aren't of a fixed
duration, but really we ought to have a vote every two years to
determine the balance of power in Westminster.
But, then, this is the logical approach, perhaps not entirely useful
with the people who:
1. My father and my father's father voted Labour, therefore...
2. Will vote for whoever the Sun tells them to vote for.
> I've actually had people complain to me that Tony Blair's name wasn't on
> the ballot paper when they went to vote.
It's a fair point. Numerous other countries have a fairly clear
distinction between local elections and "leader of the country" elections.
France, recently: Sarko vs S?go
Germany, recently: Merkel vs some unpronounceable name
US, recently: Old git with liability vs Morgan Freeman^W^Wblack guy
These were votes for the leader of the country and the majority party in
government. Why is it the UK isn't as clear as this?
Okay, granted, the ballot probably said "UMP" and "SNP" rather than
Sarko and S?go, but the point still holds. Local elections are
completely different.
> These are the people who you want to line up against^W^W^W^W^W^Wgive
> democracy a bad name.
Democracy? Britain? Where... I though ten years of Labour did a pretty
good job of killing that, killing effective policing, and putting so
many cack bits of legislation into effect that everybody is bound to be
a criminal at least once a week...
You mistakenly recycled a non-recyclable yoghurt carton?
ASSUME THE POSITION! YOU'RE GOING DOWN &?$@"?$!!!!!!
Best wishes,
Rick.
--
Rick Murray, eeePC901 & ADSL WiFI'd into it, all ETLAs!
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