Date : Mon, 03 Apr 2006 16:11:28 +0100
From : Andy Armstrong <andy@...>
Subject: Re: Basic & BBC Basic
On 3 Apr 2006, at 15:41, Fragula wrote:
>> While I'd love to turn kids on to a low level understanding of how
>> computers work is a room full of Model Bs really the way to achieve
>> this?
> Its the best way I can think of. I'm not suggesting that all kids are
> turned into adept programmers, but perhaps that seven year olds could
> benefit from a little (screen based) logo to get those basic
> concepts of
> angles and things, as well as the notion that the computer is a
> machine
> that accepts a list of instructions, a "Program", rather than is a
> some
> kind of electronic (sh*t for)brain (s) that talks with a bouncing
> paperclip (or whatever). Just basic conceptual stuff, the, potentially
> inspiring, power of which doesn't reall get felt until you look at it
> first hand. A chalk and talk here just wont suffice. Neither even at
> that stage does a Linux(/whatever) box and a compiler. The visceral
> immediacy of banging command lines in is what does the trick I think.
> The whole process is (apparently) transparent. Of course it's just a
> conceptual introduction, a rehersal if you like, for Assembly
> language,
> C, or whatever.
Yeah, I see the appeal. I wonder if the $100 laptop will have
anything like the same immediacy. Probably not I guess. I did have a
thought a while back that it'd be cool to have a Linux distro that
turned an old laptop into a dedicated BBC Emulator. It'd still take
longer to boot of course.
> Kids should be able to design a 16x16 sprite in "one bit mono", get
> that
> into binary, then to hex, then see it bounced around the screen,
> this at
> maybe 10 years old or so. At 12 a little PWM control via the user port
> and a buffer board. Using the 6502, entering the program and having
> the
> opcodes explained.
Wow - you've worked out the curriculum and everything :)
> Why model B's? Well, its not so much due to its adequacy or
> flexibility,
> but some to do with its "transparency". A block diagram of a model
> B is
> at least *possible* to explain to a kid, who knows, maybe even an I.T.
> teacher.
:)
> Oh yes, the teachers need changing too! the ones at my childrens
> schools
> insist that the PC case is a "CPU" or "Processor" <sigh>
Yeah. People call them disk drives too.
> Rather than have my children discriminated against for being
> smartasses,
> I've advised them to nod and smile when the teachers come out with the
> ridiculous things that they do, just fill in the B.S. they want on the
> exam papers and move on.
You don't favour encouraging them to say 'no, it's a computer you
f*cktard' then?
>> If you want to go that way why not kit them out with PIC based
>> prototyping systems?
> Not that bad an idea, but a keyboard/screen formula is probably more
> viable for a wider range of abilities and ages than the hex keypad and
> LED. Otherways I'd have suggested a "Trainer" board.
Uh huh - I misinterpreted your original intent. I agree that a
machine you can just switch on, type a few commands and see the
results on screen has huge appeal.
>> There's no database in OO.
> By that definition, there's no database *in* Access either! :-)
Access is actually one of the few personal database systems that's a
proper relational database so while it certainly blows goats it's not
at all accurate to say it's not a database.
> ISTR that OO v2 has more than that, but as I don't make much use for
> these things, these days, I'm no expert.
Turns out I was wrong about that - OO does indeed now have a database
thingy.
--
Andy Armstrong, hexten.net